Inflection:

“Shit.” ut, oh(this ain’t gonna be good)
“Sheeaatt” (this is real good)
“Shihihiit” (disbelief, scoffing)
“Shihit” (fine babe)
“Shoot.” (Christian shit alternative)
“Shat” (past tense of shit as verb)
“Chit” (Mexican)
“Shitta.” (Italian)
“Thit.” (lisp)

Types of Shit: bull,horse, chicken, owl, dog, big, important, unimportant, sorry, poor, strike three, pink slip,any mail you must sign for, Monday morning.

http://forloveofthysweetcountrymen.blogspot.com/

honestly feel like i have no ‘points’ to make, i just say things for like, blog hits or whatever…

seems most criticism (as you have described it) i guess, has ‘points’ to make or something…

idk…

feel like “yes or no [something]” or “good or bad [something]” don’t make sense unsarcastically or something…

“you just feel like a priveleged, spoiled asshole who thinks he’s really deep because he can name a poem after animal collective”

lol…

i think criticism can happen in an open, friendly way, maybe…

‘idk, bro. don’t really know what to say.’

4/20, i guess…

Even if the intended message of a given criticism is not to put down a subject, the idea and act of criticism presupposes a position of power and sub/dom relationship to the artist. In the idea that things can be put up to a “yes or no” vote is in itself humiliating and a put down. Just like how I never consented to American’s social contract but am still binded by its jurisdiction. And rarely is anyone motivated to write criticism without having some “critical” point to make. And as much as everyone wishes that was impulse was out of camaraderie I think it is usually perceived as being about as BFF as Alexis’s comments. And I think with good reason. Because she made the same point, perhaps more bluntly, that I could see many literary critics making. Influence of Anxiety and all that.

Shit-talking (seems) like it is just crass criticism from non-critics that is overtly personal.

‘shit-talking,’ as i have described it, is a ‘sub-category’ of criticism, i feel. not all criticism intends to ‘put down’ or ‘degrade’ ['shit-talked' person/thing] and not all criticism implies objective truth.

Isn’t any critic coming from the viewpoint that they have something to say on a subject that wasn’t previously considered?

maybe, yes. however this does not mean the critic is ‘putting ['shit-talked' person/thing] down’ or implying objective truth. a critic can simply ‘bring something to light’ in a manner that implies comaradie or [something]. saying something that was not perviously considered is not inherently good/bad. in my view, it is also not good/bad.

Which is basically saying they are higher up on a cultural hierarchy than either the producer or consumer of the cultural product at hand?

no, based on what i said re previous question.

So they have a subjective, controlling, sense of power and obv self confidence?

no, based on what i said re previous question.

So…insomuch that criticism is everything that isn’t flattery or explication or random comments… isn’t the derisive tone you’re taking about shit-talking sort of an impulse to control how your own work is perceived?

i don’t think so… i say nothing in the above essay that indicates my desire to control how people percieve my work. i do think ‘shit-talking,’ as a thing, is generally harmful, but i don’t think i can or want to control how people percieve my work. i think in certain circumstances i even ‘go so far’ as to ‘embrace’ ‘shit-talking,’ to some degree, in scenarios where the ‘shit-talking’ could potentially attract attention to myself or my internet precense in a potentially career-boosting way.

And isn’t that wrong?

i don’t know…

And isn’t any cultural practice dependent on or at least encouraged by critical discourse?

i don’t know…

Seems like the ole tirade of producers vs critics.

seems dismissive, a little / i don’t know…

Especially because the Alexis examples you cite really are, like, at least half constructive in intention.

“cut that shit out” seems to be an attempt at ‘destroying’ free-thought / my writing, to some degree…

“priveleged spoiled asshole”…

“reeks of shittiness”….

etc…

if you are referring to her mentioning me ‘copying’ Tao re constructive in intention, seems i agree with you, to some degree..

i enjoyed your comment, seemed really good… felt ‘startled’ at first re ‘never thought of that’

Seems like the ole tirade of producers vs critics.

Especially because the Alexis examples you cite really are, like, at least half constructive in intention.

highly offended

the tempeh was like, pre packaged and seemed to have a really strong taste…

do you have evidence of me ‘shit-talking’…

http://www.lolcats.com/

maybe you should analyze your own inability to keep your mouth shut before you go condemning/ preaching the same shit to the choir. do us all a favor and comprehensively analyze yourself.

interesting re “balloonish”

If we could receive some kind of confirmation on what it is, it might be easier to comment on issues of ‘tone,’ etc.

how has my avatar affected things…

seems interesting

One day, a guy posted a piece that was replete with bad construction and misplaced punctuation. So, doing my thing, I went in and said ‘From a common usage point of view, you need to fix up this, this, this, this, etc.’ I did my best to be polite about it, to keep it academic.

His response started with the words ‘OK asshole – let’s do this,’ and he proceeded to get personally upset.

I think it was at that point I a) started to laugh and b) realised that maybe, just maybe, the internet wasn’t the bastion of illumination that lolcats had made me believe it was.

It’s not racist. Or maybe it is racist. But it is nevertheless what they teach in college-level sociolinguistics courses. People from different backgrounds and cultures use and perceive the same language differently, but in culturally-dependent, predictable ways. White, Midwestern Americans and people who come up with that as their primary culture of influence, generally (though not universally) speaking, are especially conflict-avoidant. That’s what they say.

Of course talking about something in an emotionless way only means that you’ve talked about it in an emotionless way.

If outward appearances were indicators of truth, a lot more women would have blond…eyebrows…don’t you think?

Nevertheless, I can’t read your mind. I have to assume you’re being truthful and that your considerable investment in shit talking comes from a purely clinical rather than personal motivation.

who is this person…

seems vaguely racist re “white” / “irish”

i agree that the word “offensive” is entirely subjective. i did not use the word “offensive” once in this article. in the definition of ‘shit-talking’ at the beginning of this article, i scare-quoted subjective words… except “dismiss”… maybe should have done that…

i don’t think i’m sensitive to shit-talking, rather, i have asessed it from a detached, generally emotionless standpoint, and i still think it can be harmful (due to the hierarchies it is trying to establish)

i think, ‘in the face’ of ‘shit-talking’ i tend to think any number of things. i generally don’t feel bad. sometimes i feel happy that i have ‘sparked’ [something] within the ‘shit-talker,’ furthering my precense in the mind of someone, which may or may not be expressed to another person, therefore furthering my career and possibly increasing blog hits…

sometimes i feel nothing
in almost all cases i try to understand what the ‘shit-talker’ is saying and why they are saying it. also if their point seems ‘valid’ in the context of my worldview/understanding of existence.
sometimes i feel bleak

First of all, your buddy Alexis seems to think it’s somehow easy to imitate the styles of writers you admire. Hah! Even if you were able to do so convincingly, and even if it were totally unoriginal, it would still be a serious accomplishment and a great learning opportunity.

That said, I adore how she was like, “I hate to rag on you for this, but …” RIGHT. you really hate putting me down, insulting my writing, and implying that you are thousands of times better than me because I accomplishing something you can’t even aspire to. Right.

The thing is, talking trash just to be a jerk is one thing. That’s just trolling, and it’s worthless. And then there’s criticism, which can be so useful, albeit hard to hear sometimes. But there’s a gigantic difference between the two. Here’s hoping you get more useful criticism and less worthless trolling.

somebody is trying to emulate me

Double ouch!

Ahhh well.

A handful of friends and I engage in a far more…friendly…version of shit-talk, which I think elevates it to a finer plane. Our shit-talk is all about demonstrating what clever joke-tellers and comedians we can be. A bit more aligned with the dozens, than with coldly insulting (as per the online shit-talk you received).

It’s warmer, kinder, and positions the thing we’re teasing the other person about as a clearly great and enviable trait. Like, if your [insert awesome quality] wasn’t so awesome, I wouldn’t be picking on it here with my joke. This is, of course, a creature of another nature–we need to be friends in order to know one another well enough to dish out that sort of shit-talk in the first place.

I’ve never understood shit-talk of the other, mean variety. It’s kinda like taunting some kid on the playground, “I just wanted to let you know that I am not talking to you. Starting now. Ok, starting in three seconds…one…two…three…See? Not talking to you!” If you hate some guy’s poetry, why invest the time in telling him about your hatred? Buncha big threatened babies.

Thanks,
-Mgmt.

But it’s worth mentioning that “shit talking” in any number of discourses, is just plain “talking.”

In fact, in African American English, for example, shit-talking, as you call it, is the primary mode of persuasive discourse.

What constitutes offensive “shit talking” is entirely subjective, and your version is incredibly white. I am white, but I enjoy shit-talking anyway. Probably because part of my white is Irish.

Conclusion: There is nothing wrong with “shit talking” unless you are sensitive to it.

is this really the future of creative nonfiction

you have no idea how much this sounds like tao lin’s tnbd articles